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  • Hi.  I noticed recent changes to the wiki, though there wasn't an announcement post made, or much less a vote like we used to do for these sorts of things.  I chalked it up to admin decisions, and just ignored it.

    That said, today I come to find out these were all voted for in the Discord, that not all wiki users, use.  Not only that, but the wiki's admins I talk to regularly didn't know about the change until it already happened.

    That said, layout wise, I might as well give my opinion in hindsight, since I couldn't before the implementation.


    It sucks.

    Thalia Renderra wiki page
    Renderra family Wiki page

    That isn't to say the work our admins put into it sucks.  They have done a great job on the wiki, and that can't be denied.  It isn't to say their work isn't appreciated.  But it's a matter of some issues with the current theme, that the old one just didn't have.

    There, I got that out of the way.  Though I should probably give my reasoning.

    Aethyric Empire
    The beige wiki design wasn't flashy.  It wasn't too dark or too bright, leaving focus on the text on the page.  Beige is such a bland, uncommon colour, it works well for a wiki that has a variety of images both colourful, dark, bright, or monochome.  After all, Khakis don't exactly sound flashy and fashionable, but they certainly don't look bad with any other colour.  Beige compliments other colours well.  This applies double on my pages, which were made with the beige wiki in mind.  Here's some examples.  Some turn out better.  Others don't.
    Natalie wiki page
    I appreciate that people are still happy to use the community server, though given the examples shown here, where many of the pictures used in articles by myself and others now clash with the more dynamic, loud theme the wiki has, I can't, in good conscience condone that future (or present) updates to the theme of the wiki be done without a vote on the wiki, so users who don't use the Discord, or do not feel welcome there, may give their input on how the wiki presents itself to a user.

    So, running down what's irking me with those images, top to bottom...

    I won't deny it, the Eclipse picture looks great!  It's part of the reason I scrolled down to include it, because what goes right has just as much place here.  But the other one on Thalia's page, the main image of her in her armour, is detailed in such a way to give a slight inky vibe.  Like someone drew it into a story, rather than shooting for raw, beautiful shots in NXT Ultra. With the beige background, I could get a little artsy with this.

    The second, the Renderra page, is another ball of wax.  The beige background that is there is admittedly, my fault for not making it transparent.  But the white, now surrounded by the darker Wiki text looks way too bright, especially since it's a pretty pure shade for a coat of arms, and not something that you come across ingame.  Heraldry tends to lean to bright, pure colours to be more distinguishable.

    The Third image, using the Old/Not Asgarnian Renderra colours, is a mess for another reason.  The new wiki theme is so dark, you really need to focus on the image to see the shield is present, indicating it's heraldry.

    Finally, the fourth page...  Natalie Renderra's.  The bright white clashes with the new theme, but since this is a sketch, removing the white means there is now just black, blending into our new theme.  There's no way to keep Tibby's excellent detail in, without the white seeming to jump off the page too much.

    Now, I'm going to point out a few other pages that come to mind.

    Bloody Apple - The Beige works well with the theme, because it is easy to read in this case.  The dramatics of the theme have a hard time clashing with the simplicity of the images by the bottom, but the ones by the top run into an issue of dramatic and dark colours once more.  Similar can be said for issues of The Gielinor Times that use the text.

    Hayley K. Spears - The art, being wonderfully hand-drawn, is suffering from white sheet syndrome and sticks out.

    Some of the templates for articles are painfully bright, as well.  The Zamorak one comes to mind, with how the bright red clashes with our new, dark blue theme.  This is an easy fix though, so nothing too big.

    The big issue is the theme and images.  If the current theme is set into stone, and completely never coming up for discussion again for a few years, that's fine.  I understand.  But is it at all possible that we can have a border around the images, in a more neutral colour?  Can someone test this on a few pages and see how that works, ones that look good and bad with the current theme?

    Second, if this isn't possible, would some people be willing to go through some images and clean them up so they have a better look with the Wiki's theme?

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    • yes

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    • not my president!

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    • Several months ago, we held a vote in the W42 community discord due to having the bulk of the community present there and making it easy to coordinate with our target audience: people that RP on W42. You're more than welcome to join and mute the channels that are not the wiki channel. If you feel unwelcome in the channel, please contact one of the wikia chat moderators and we will endeavor to deal with it.

      In any case, we used discord as a medium to ask a few questions: do you use the wiki? If not, why? It lead to some reworks and the writing up of some guides to help people be able to transition into using the wiki.

      Later down the road, discussion was started about potentially reworking the wiki and we agreed: the wiki's appearance was dated and could use some work. People really enjoyed the prospect of it being reworked: ideas were thrown around and a layout more faithful to RS's website was the idea that we went with. Some drafts were even made and have been available on the wiki, easily reachable by way of the recent updates section of the front page which would bring people to this page.

      The reason why we did not use the wiki forums for that is because the bulk of the community is present in one area and the discord is far more active (and always will be, this is the case for wikia's everywhere) than our wiki forums here.

      Concerning things "sucking": the volume of the changes needed is as of yet not fully known to us; we've updated some of the most used templates but we would have to go through every template individually and update it. It's a work in progress because it's a significant amount of work.

      We humbly ask all users that come across errors like you have, or have constructive feedback to offer (the admin team requests that 'xyz sucks' be avoided in the future) to post on the forums or to join the wiki discussion section of the W42 discord and leave your thoughts. Additionally, you can make use of the 'Articles_being_reworked.' tag to flag a page and bring it to our attention.

      Reworking the wiki is no small undertaking and we suspect that it might take another few weeks yet to clean up everything we have to clean (dead links, unused images, template rework, code cleaning, etc). As we work on the project, we request your patience.

      Thank you for your comprehension,

      The Staff Team

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    • I pretty much have an on and off relationship with RSRP, but I enjoy the new look on the Wiki. The past look was extremely dated and 2007ish. 

      Thank you for the hard work.

      -Myles

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    • It's not just an "XYZ Sucks" arguement in this case.  It's an "XYZ Sucks because of 1, 2, 3, etc"

      When I'm not even on a server, and no disciplinary action is made when someone says they want to chop my fingers off so I can't roleplay anymore, that's a fairly clear sign I'm not welcome there.  Or that my clan can suck their butthole, as unprofessional as that sounds.

      So no, I am not joining that server.  Especially when the person who did so still seems to be there, after being supposedly being removed for another issue.

      This has been a recurring problem with the community server, where a significant chunk of the community does not feel welcome enough there to join it, or don't use Discord, when these changes affect everyone who uses a broader platform like the Wiki, or even trying to iron out roleplay rules.

      If using strong language like "This sucks" gets a response (which it did) then it's clear that worked.  You and Void are putting in some serious work, and I can't understate that I'm glad the wiki is getting some TLC.

      All that said, the logistics of the vote not being announced anywhere on site, or even that there was a Wiki discussion in the Discord is not fun.

      If you need help working on cleaning up images and templates, I'll do my part where I can.

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    • You didn't get a response because you said "it sucks", you got a response because you're an active and contributing community member.

      Concerning the Discord: fair enough. If you join our own channel, please tag one of us to deal with something if someone is being wildly inappropriate. I'll be contacting its admin team and seeing what can be done about that: it's been on my mind as well.

      Concerning the vote not having taken place on the wikia: the team extends its apologies. Another member of the team put the vote up in Discord and it was simply never taken here. We'll endeavor to communicate more clearly amongst each-other in the future.

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    • Tbh, a vote for wiki reworks should have been held on the wiki over Discord, considering some people either don't have Discord or don't want to join the W42 commuity on Discord(like me!). It just makes more logical sense to have it on the site that everyone can easily access than using an external means of communication that some don't have access to. And yes, I read Lor's post already.

      That being said(not that anybody cares about my opinion here anyway), I really don't care for the new theme. I respect the attempt to replicate the RS Forums(Don't even try to say that it's not an inspiration, it is), but honestly, if it wasn't broke then why fix it? I personally liked the older theme better, but a change in theme isn't going to stop me from pumping out content when I feel like it. I just think the darker theme is a bit dull and needs a bit more pop. Last time we had a dark theme we had to switch it.

      I also found the old theme to blend with the Fandom thingy at the top. But who cares.

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    • Look. I'm fine with change. But I'd rather see the change brought up to the people on the wiki, not on a discord people aren't in. The old wasn't bad, and it didn't hurt my eyes to look at, so I don't see the reason for a change bar a vote which people who don't even use the wiki could've partaken in.

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    • Said this before, and I'll say it again - the discord is for the community. If you aren't in it - and therefore "couldn't vote" - for whatever reason (anywhere from can't be bothered to download or some petty grudge), that's your prerogative and no one else is to blame.

      It's not like no one knew there was an intended wiki rework. As Lor has said, it was mentioned a while ago.

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    • Caelo Sciat wrote:
      Look. I'm fine with change. But I'd rather see the change brought up to the people on the wiki, not on a discord people aren't in. The old wasn't bad, and it didn't hurt my eyes to look at, so I don't see the reason for a change bar a vote which people who don't even use the wiki could've partaken in.

      There's a greater audience to reach than simply the people that used the wiki already. Attracting new users has always been our mission. Concerning the vote: once more, the team extends its apologies.

      I'll look into a function that would allow users to use the legacy setup at their leisure, because I'm frankly not going to drop another 30 hours working on everything for quite some time, and I can't in good conscience ask anyone to do something that even I'm iffy on.

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    • Letx wrote:
      Said this before, and I'll say it again - the discord is for the community. If you aren't in it - and therefore "couldn't vote" - for whatever reason (anywhere from can't be bothered to download or some petty grudge), that's your prerogative and no one else is to blame.

      It's more than just a petty grudge. It's easily able to be called harassment on multiple platforms.

      If you look here, you will see a sample of the extent of this. Do keep in mind, Dimitri had done nothing to reprimand Jake. This isn't even all of my logs. I can go back to June of 2016 with more logs.

      Ordinarily, I'd not care. It's not a problem, I just ignore the chat and ignore the few people behind the harassment and it works for me. I have thicker skin than people give me credit for. But now that it's the "Official Discord of the RSRP Wikia Community" it does need to follow community guidelines and terms of use. Continuing to allow this harassment of other Wikia members in the advertised Discord, violates both. This would, if someone was willing, put the Wiki down as a candidate for deletion by Wikia, for not following proper Terms of Use on behalf of the administration team. Especially when other potentially Wiki-Deleting offences have been conducted by certain Administrators abusing their power.

      The odds of the Wiki, an accessory to the "World 42 Community Server" being able to convince the entirety of the server to comply with Wikia standards, seems unlikely. I say this because the servers I run are similar. Friends will talk in a way that is unprofessional for a Wiki.

      I really do care about this Wiki. I've spent five years adding to pages, both my own, guides, and others to leave things in an easy place to retrieve and read. I don't want to see it deleted. But if the current Administration continues this path, that is where it is most likely headed.

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    • As someone who is a rather netural party at the end of the day, I'll like to highlight one thing. 

      "This would, if someone was willing, put the Wiki down as a candidate for deletion by Wikia, for not following proper Terms of Use on behalf of the administration team. Especially when other potentially Wiki-Deleting offences have been conducted by certain Administrators abusing their power."

      Let us look at the Terms of Use because it's a fair point Nat has made. 

      Welcome to Wikia and Fandom powered by Wikia (collectively, the “Service” or “Site”), operated by Wikia, Inc. (the "Company"). By accessing or using the Service, you signify that you have read, understand and agree to be bound by these Terms of Use ("Terms of Use" or "Agreement"), without regard as to whether you are a registered member of Wikia.

      Notice how it says that Wiki shall be refered to as the "Service" or the "Site"

      You agree that you will not use the Service in any manner that is contrary to the Wikia Community Guidelines, which may be updated from time to time. Without limiting the foregoing, you also agree not to use the Service to:

      The Guidelines only protect those who are being attacked while on the Site. If someone in the screenshots you have shown used the Wiki site to attack you, they would be breaking the Terms of Use. But Wiki does not have the authority to police another site where one of their Admins might be or might not be saying something. At least in terms of the Terms of Use. 


      You have every right to wish to protect yourself, Nat. Things have been said that gives you every right to worry but to put a slight threat of; 

      "This would, if someone was willing, put the Wiki down as a candidate for deletion by Wikia,.."

      Will not get us anywhere. 


      Edit: I'd rather not sit here and fight about Terms of Use or something like that seeing as how inactive I am in the community but I would like to state this is in no way a personal attack on Nat or anyone assoicated with her. 

      But from simply searching it up, I don't understand how something said in a Discord Server can be policed by Wikia. I used to be in the Server myself and left for my own reasons but nothing was ever stated in the Wikia Sub-Server that would be stated as a personal attack. And the only other screenshots you have shown was taken from Skype and Ig-Game. Which opens up a whole other fight. 

      Simply wished to share an outsider view on things. 

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    • I just question how it can be called a community server when blatant personal attacks like the above can happen in the first place. There is literally no reason something like that should be allowed to happen in the community discord at all, and makes it pretty obvious some people aren't quite as welcome as others in there. 

      You can say 'oh you can ignore it' but at the end of the day, I'd rather not touch that kind of environment for any reason. 

      This is a slightly off-topic post brought to you by Kodi.

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    • Caelo Sciat wrote:
      I just question how it can be called a community server when blatant personal attacks like the above can happen in the first place. There is literally no reason something like that should be allowed to happen in the community discord at all, and makes it pretty obvious some people aren't quite as welcome as others in there. 

      You can say 'oh you can ignore it' but at the end of the day, I'd rather not touch that kind of environment for any reason. 

      This is a slightly off-topic post brought to you by Kodi.


      I believe it should be removed from the front page and site unless the Admins in the Discord Server can police it as they should. 

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    • We're getting off the designated course here, aren't we? But since it seems that's allowed, and that's what I've always been so good at, I'll toss in my two cents.

      I believe that if you choose to share the game server with everyone else, then you too can share a chat server with them as well. As Nat's screenshots show, the moderation in both places is only applied on an absolutely need-to basis. Which, in my opinion, is too lax. But the situation the Discord has is the same that World 42 has. If you haven't moved from World 42/the RP community (and no blame on you if you do!) then you can deal with a Discord that is pretty much the same way. Right now I count 14 people in that server that I do not like and really don't want to interact with at all and they probably feel the same about me. Some of them are just not mature, others have actively harassed and talked mad shit about me for years. However, the only time they frustrate me is when I see their name in the roster. I have customized my notification settings and blocked them to where I rarely have to pay them mind (although it'd be super nice if it wouldn't even show me there were blocked messages but I suppose that's needed in order to see the context of some conversations). Further yet, there's more I'm ambivalent towards. 

      What I'm saying is - the idea that this server was ever a "clique" has only ever been a self-fulfilling one. It's not anymore a clique than World 42 itself is. So, it would be very nice if we could have some cooperation here. Put aside differences for once.

      However, on the other hand, I will cede that there are a few people that need to be removed from the community for good. They provide nothing of worth in their interactions on any level. And, as a platform that chooses to associate itself with the Wikia brand, it should rightfully take action about this. Perhaps it won't affect the quality of our actual game server, but this platform has the ability to moderate itself and it really should. 

      But whatever it does, it is not subjected to Wikia policy because it is not a property owned by Wikia. To even hint at the prospect of trying to damage this wiki because of its associated chat platform when the administrators are not even the same is kind of insulting to anyone who's ever worked on things here. Be it those whom have only made their own character pages or the dedicated folks trying to improve this wiki. 



      Anyways. I like the changes. It's cool. I just think it's kind of a lost cause with how small the community is now. 

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    • Wikia cannot, for the record, take action on actions performed outside of the website.

      Concerning your stance, however: I extend my sympathies. It's something that the admin team has to work on and I believe that a general lack of any kind of decency is one of the reasons why the community doesn't retain its new additions -- I've seen my fair share of promising roleplayers leave due many unpleasant experiences. These things are things to be worked on, validly so because it's a legitimate concern. Brushing off your and other people's comments due to 'cliques' is wildly inappropriate: it's quite clear that some people have been seriously affected in some capacity by their experiences and that that needs to be addressed.

      Threatening to take the Wiki down, however, is not liable to make you any friends. No one needs to make threats or get angry or make insults to get the attention of the admin team: we're here because we want to be here and make the conscious decision everyday to retain our positions because we enjoy it. Maintaining the wiki is, for me, a way of giving back to the community. Because of W42, I've fallen in and out of love several times (none of which I regret), made innumerable amounts of friends, had fun and practiced my writing. So, working on the wiki never feels wasted for me, though it can be draining. I do it because I genuinely enjoy doing it, and because I enjoy interacting with the people that frequent the wiki.

      If there is a way in which I am capable of improving someone's experience, I will do so. I think that we all know by now that I am not afraid of taking disciplinary action or confronting people about something, so I hope that much does not happen to be one of your concerns. If another discord server is something that people feel is a necessity, then we will go with that and elect moderators appropriate to the community that we are working to build.

      I'm going to leave the thread open for so long as the comments remain constructive and personal attacks and threats are not made. If you have any concerns or questions, please feel free to reach me via the 'Contact Us' function on the front page or by way of discord at "Llenne#5623".

      Thank you for your comprehension,

      Lorelei.

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    • A FANDOM user
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